The interview between a Fox interviewer and the Lebanese Ambassador to the U.S., Mr. Farid
Abboud.
If you didn't see the interview, then THIS IS A MUST READ !!!
Friday, April 12, 2002 SHOW:
FOX HANNITY & COLMES (21:00) Transcript # 041201cb.253 SECTION:
News; International LENGTH: 2914 words
HEADLINE: Interview With Rep. David Dreier and Farid Abboud
HANNITY: Our top story tonight. A few hours ago Secretary of State Colin Powell told Yasser Arafat to forget about their meeting for now. Now why? Today, a female bomber blew herself up at a bus stop near a crowded outdoor market in downtown Jerusalem. Six people, as we speak, now dead. The Martyrs Brigade, which has ties to Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, has claimed responsibility. We're joined from Los Angeles tonight by the chairman of the House Rules Committee, California Congressman David Dreier in Washington. The Lebanese ambassador to the United States, Farid Abboud, is with us. Congressman...
REP. DAVID DREIER (R), CALIFORNIA: Could I just ask you a question, Sean, first?
HANNITY: Yeah.
DREIER: Actually, I should ask Alan. Did Sean just described himself as a kleptomaniac geek?
COLMES: I think -- look, I'll protect him. I'll visit him in prison, if I have to. You know, I mean, he's my...
HANNITY: I just have a problem getting back to the library, Congressman, with those books and tapes. Another suicide bombing. Another group with direct ties to Yasser Arafat. Documents in "The New York Times" today basically chronicle -- has been sent to America that -- from Arafat's headquarters linking him to paying off some of these suicide murderers. Why even -- why even consider still meeting with him, Congressman Dreier? I don't understand the policy.
DREIER: Well, I will tell you, Sean. For starters, I -- our heart goes out to those victims and the families of those victims. We've continued to see this. We thought the six days of suicide bombings that took place in a row, what was now called the Passover massacre, was it, and then, of course, this morning, we saw...
HANNITY: Well, look at the pictures. Another massacre.
DREIER: It's just -- no. I mean, that's what I'm saying, and this is a horrible situation, and I know from having met with the president a couple of days ago that he is very concerned and he is very supportive of Israel, and he has made that clear. We have to deal, Sean, as you and I discussed earlier today, with Arab nations and a very delicate situation, and I know that you and others have been making an attempt to say that Yasser Arafat and the situation that exists in the Middle East is identical to what took place on September 11th.
HANNITY: But it is.
DREIER: Wait, wait.
HANNITY: And...
DREIER: Well, let me...
HANNITY: ... these pictures show that.
DREIER: Let me just say this slight difference that exists here, Sean.
HANNITY: I don't see it.
DREIER: Well, I know you don't see, and let me just try and point to one, and that is there is a conflict that has existed before you and I were born between the Israelis and the Palestinians.
HANNITY: But wait a minute.
DREIER: It has gone on for years.
HANNITY: That's not my point.
DREIER: What took place on September 11th...
HANNITY: But that's not my point. My point...
DREIER: What took place on September 11th was a single shot...
HANNITY: But wait a minute.
DREIER: ... and it was the first time we'd seen any...
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: ... at all.
HANNITY: Congressman, Arafat is, was, and continues to be and has links towards terrorism. My point is the Bush doctrine against terror is absolutely right. Why won't the president call him a terrorist, and why does Colin Powell insist on negotiating with this man with all the incontrovertible evidence we have out there against him? It is inconsistent with their own policy.
DREIER: Well, Sean, I will tell you this. This is not a question of negotiating with terrorists. What this is -- this is a question of dealing with a situation...
HANNITY: Is he a terrorist?
DREIER: ... that is so extraordinarily delicate. Well, let me tell you this. Here is what I believe should take place. I believe that we should continue to call on Yasser Arafat, as the president has, to, in Arabic, condemn those terrorists and do everything in his...
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: Let me put it this way, Sean. I don't believe that he's doing enough. I don't believe that he's doing enough now to bring an end to these terrorist acts...
COLMES: Let me get the ambassador in here, Congressman.
DREIER: ... and that's why I think Secretary Powell is right in delaying the meeting.
COLMES: Congressman, very nice to see you.
DREIER: Bless you, Alan.
COLMES: We all condemn terrorism, Ambassador. Nobody -- and I'm glad to see that we're now calling it homicide bombers because that's exactly what they are. But are we making a mistake, Ambassador Abboud, to think that Yasser Arafat can control these people? And as the peace process continues, we're likely to see more of this from extremist groups who don't want the peace process to go on. So to use this as an excuse not to meet with Arafat, Mr. Ambassador, I think is a big mistake. What's your take on it?
FARID ABBOUD, LEBANESE AMBASSADOR: First, I think we should, you know, express our sympathies to all the victims -- civilian victims in this conflict, and there have been many victims on the Arab and Palestinian side, and they are not the children of a lesser god, and there are much more victims on the Palestinian side than on the Israeli side. So the sympathy should be equal, and the outrage regarding the deliberate attack on civilians should be also balanced in order to be useful.
COLMES: Of course.
ABBOUD: As far as the meeting with -- it is, of course, the secretary's decision to meet or not, but I think if there is any political solution to the problem -- and the only solution is political, after all -- and if Secretary Powell is going to find a solution, he has to talk to the people involved.
COLMES: Congressman Dreier...
ABBOUD: As...
COLMES: Let me just move on and get the response from the Congressman on that, sir, if I could. Isn't it a big mistake for Colin Powell to be over there, having made this trip, done all of the work he's done, and not meet with the head of the Palestinian Authority? Whether or not we like him or think he is behind acts of terror, the fact is that he is the head of the Palestinian Authority, and he has to be talked to.
DREIER: Well, Alan, first of all, I think Ambassador Abboud is absolutely right in saying that we are concerned about civilian deaths wherever they take place or any death for that matter. But the fact is Secretary Powell is there. He is in the region. He has not said that he refuses to meet, but when we again call on Yasser Arafat to demonstrate his outrage over the fact that these terrorist attacks have taken place, in Arabic -- that's what we believe should take place. And I think that we've seen a postponement. The meeting was scheduled, and it has been postponed, and I think postponement of that meeting, in light of the attack that took place today, is the right thing.
HANNITY: All right. We've got to take a break. We'll continue. We'll pick this discussion up on the other side. Also coming up tonight, should Arab-Americans be more faithful to the United States? You'll meet a man who says yes. And later, perhaps the most disgusting verbal attack on a U.S. president I have ever seen. Wait until you hear what this member of Congress said. It's very bad.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLMES: Welcome back to HANNITY & COLMES. Later in the show, a congresswoman takes the First Amendment to new heights. Are those heights too high? Wait until you hear what she said about President Bush. Now back to our debate. Let me go back to Ambassador Abboud, the Lebanese ambassador to the U.N. There has been another front in this war on the border of Israel and Lebanon. Should Lebanon and can Lebanon do more to control the Hezbollah terrorists who seem to be fighting in that region?
ABBOUD: In Lebanon, we do not consider Hezbollah as a terrorist organization. And I don't think we will agree on this point, so we'd better move on. But there is a small area in Southern Lebanon which remains occupied by the Israelis and in which there are military skirmishes. Those military skirmishes remain limited there, and there is no intention of escalating or expanding the war there. Now let me just refer back to what was said about President Arafat not condemning the -- you know, the attacks. Actually, during the summit in Lebanon, he had a televised message in which he did condemn in Arabic these attacks, and the televised message was...
COLMES: Are you then saying...
(CROSSTALK)
COLMES: By the way, you're ambassador to the U.S., not the U.N.
ABBOUD: Yes, yes.
COLMES: Let me correct myself. Are you saying that the American media has misreported Arafat...
ABBOUD: I've seen it on Al-Jazeera. I've seen it on Al-Jazeera. Mr. Arafat condemned the attack then, and I think...
DREIER: This is something that needs to -- it needs to -- this is something, Mr. Ambassador, that needs to continue as long as the attacks continue, and so it should be done consistently.
ABBOUD: Yes, of course.
COLMES: Can Yasser Arafat -- Ambassador, can he control those terrorists because it seems like he has no control over them and we keep asking him to control them. Can he get them to tell to stop and they'll listen to him?
ABBOUD: Yes, but in order to control them -- in order to control them, he has to have the tools of control, which are the instruments of authority, and Mr. Sharon has demolished them very systematically one by one. He didn't even leave one single police unit, one single police car. And now Arafat is asked from a small room, windowless office to control all these people.
COLMES: But he can speak out. He can condemn the terrorists. He can ask them to stop.
ABBOUD: He did condemn the terrorists, but here -- his job would be much easier if there is a condemnation also of the actions on the other side which have also involved the killing of the...
HANNITY: Hey...
ABBOUD: ... the killing of civilians repeatedly.
HANNITY: Congressman...
DREIER: What statement...
HANNITY: Congressman Dreier...
DREIER: What statement was made today by Yasser Arafat following the bombing that took place today? I have yet to hear anything from him demonstrating outrage there.
HANNITY: But what good would it do, Congressman Dreier? I mean, look, here's my question.
DREIER: Well, again...
HANNITY: Wait, wait.
DREIER: But the point is it needs to be done repeatedly until it comes to an end, Sean.
HANNITY: Well, it needs to be done, but what good is it if we have incontrovertible evidence that shows he's supporting and paying for terror, that he's importing 55 tons of weapons that have his fingerprints all over it from Iran? It is a foolish policy all across the board, and it goes against the Bush doctrine.
DREIER: Well, you know, you're trying again to apply the Bush doctrine to a circumstance which is very unique and has been going on for at least a half a century, and...
HANNITY: What is the Bush doctrine? Does the Bush doctrine allow us to deal with terrorists?
DREIER: To stand up to terrorism, and I will tell you...
HANNITY: Do we negotiate with...
DREIER: ... and I have to tell you President Bush...
HANNITY: Do we negotiate with terrorists?
DREIER: No. President Bush has not stated that Yasser Arafat is a terrorist, and I will tell you...
HANNITY: Why not?
DREIER: Well, what I'm telling you is that this is a situation which is very complex and very difficult. He has stated his support for the one democracy in the region, the duly elected leadership of Israel is there, and I know that there are Arab nation that are hell bent not only -- not just on these...
HANNITY: Why don't we...
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: ... for a Palestinian state but on the extinction of Israel, and I think that is horrible.
HANNITY: I want to ask -- we just heard our fellow guest here, Congressman, say that Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization.
DREIER: I...
HANNITY: Wait. We have 55 countries that won't define terrorism as attacking innocent men, women, and children. Fifty-five nations.
DREIER: Hezbollah, Hamas, the Popular Front. I will tell you they are terrorist organizations.
HANNITY: Well -- and that's my point, and -- Hezbollah is, and we have tapes of them taking credit for terror attacks. How do we have negotiation...
DREIER: As the ambassador said, we have a very strong disagreement there.
HANNITY: Well, how could we possibly have a negotiation if people won't define terrorism as attacking men, women and children?
ABBOUD: Lebanon has been requesting and other Arab countries have been requesting that there would be a proper definition of terrorism.
HANNITY: Yeah. Hezbollah has been...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: ... into the Golan Heights, sir.
ABBOUD: ... Lebanon says, and the U.S. is not accepting that. I mean, we have asked the U.N. to accept the definition...
COLMES: All right. Mr...
ABBOUD: ... the deliberate killing of civilians for political purpose, and we consider that the Israelis have been killing civilians for political purpose, much more than Hezbollah.
(CROSSTALK)
COLMES: We have to go. We thank you very much for being on the program.
DREIER: Let me say that Cynthia McKinney is so far off base on this one, Alan.
COLMES: Oh, we'll get into that one.
DREIER: It's terribly wrong.
COLMES: I know something's up when I'm constantly agreeing with everything
David Dreier is saying. Thank you very much for being on the program.
After the break, why is one Arab-American sick of seeing so-called
Arab-American leaders on television? He'll join us in a moment. And then, Sean's favorite member of Congress is at it again. Is she embarrassing her constituents? We'll talk about it on HANNITY & COLMES.